New Urgent Information has become available regarding the City Council’s Proposal for New Schools in West End.
Time to Reflect and Question, at:
3 p.m.,
SUNDAY APRIL 19
CLUB ROMANO
16 West Wynd, Dundee (Off Perth Road)
SUNDAY APRIL 19
CLUB ROMANO
16 West Wynd, Dundee (Off Perth Road)
Looking forward to the Meeting in Club Romano on Sunday. Thanks to the westendparents for the hard work and enthusiasm in their efforts to get the whole information to the ordinary people of the community of St. Joseph's who stand to lose the most prestigious Primary School site in Dundee for their Children.
ReplyDeleteI'm def coming to that meeting. I'm from the parish and wasn't given a second to have my say. I was annoyed about that. So great. A chance to have my say on this matter., thanks for setting this up.
ReplyDeleteHI - Intersesting that Status Quo said 'who stand to lose the most prestigious primary school site in Dundee' - surely a school is than more about being on a prestigious site - it is about the pupils, the staff,the parents, the church ties, ethos and the community spirit - all of which are being damaged by this campaign.
ReplyDeleteI cannot make your meeting on Sunday - so can you please post this 'Urgent new information' so everyone can make up their minds as to the validity of this 'new information'.
hi casey here this does not come across to me as a campaign just concerned parents wanting to make sure the site is acceptable, asking questions and wanting answers, what is wrong with that. what sort of community is it that doesnt fight for what they believe in. communication and information is vital for everyone before they can make such important decisions on the welfae of the children of the future. what is theyre to suggest the community spirit is broken, i believe the spirit of the community is alive and i intend to go to this meeting, you need to come to the meeting and express youre view points as it is interesting to hear all sides. the westend parents seem to have put a huge amount of effort into this and must have important topics to discuss. youre view point is just as important to me and i want to here it, come along please or if not is it possible you can send someone else. lots of luv casey.
ReplyDeletelets see this URGENT NEW INFORMATION....
ReplyDeleteif u want to see this urgent new infomation come to the meeting.
ReplyDeleteHI Casey, 11.12 here, - I think that all parents were given the opportunity to air their views to the Council prior to the end of the consultation and that this site and the other publicity which went with it encouraged this - well done. If there is 'urgent new information' then please share it on this site so we can make up our minds as to whether it is 'new information' or 'new speculation'. I am sure the authors of this site will have sent the 'new information' to the relevant authorities and that it will be considered by the Councillors before a decision is reached.
ReplyDeleteAs to a breakdown in community spirit - speaking to Parents, staff and parishioners has lead me to this belief. There are obviously 2 camps here and one camp will be disappointed with the outcome - and then what............
hi casey here get off ya bum and go to the meeting and see what it is all about. im going to the meeting, im a parent wanting to seek out this infomation and have concens and issues. the meeting is there for all and sounds very important.
ReplyDeleteif there is 2 camps as you say one is vey positive and having theye say, fighting for there children, for the safety, health of the kids, the positive camp is proactive and not constantly whining. it is an open meeting for everyone to have theyre say. come to the meeting and speak youre mind. as i have said before i want to hear all points of view, ill be the one with the red rose in my tweed jacket hee hee luv casey
ReplyDeletewho wants what is best for theyre children come to the meeting .
ReplyDeleteou probably don't even live in the parish or catchment area....
ReplyDeleteand youre point is what, i believe in fighting for the vey best for all children, im off to work so ill check out the blog later.
ReplyDeleteThen support the proposal for this wonderful new school
ReplyDeleteAnonymous 12:53 said:
ReplyDelete"Then support the proposal for this wonderful new school"
Please share the information you have about this. We couldn't find anything in the council's proposal that included designs of what the new schools (PLURAL) and nursery would look like.
Which school (singular) do you have information about: the new St Joseph's, Park Place or Park Place Nursery?
You can email the group at westendparents@googlemail.com
HI - Thanks for the 'get off ya bum' message. I work all day Sunday and I have no holiday time to take as I have just used it all to look after the children during the holidays. Just because I cannot come to the meeting does not mean I do not care for what is best for my children.
ReplyDeleteI have read the Council Proposals, attended the meeting, read the Document on this website and come to the conclusion that I support the proposals.
Just because those Parents who do support the proposals have not formed a group does not mean they care any less than any one else.
As for the above reply to the comment about 'a wonderful new school' - and as per an earlier comment - a school is not about the design of a building - its about the people in it!
Hello - for those parents who cannot come to the meeting for whatever reason can you please publish this 'urgent new information' so we can all decide if it is 'urgent new information' and then take the appropriate steps if necessary - ie contact the Council for a response.
ReplyDeleteThank you
Hello everyone, Ok - if I win the Eurolottery tonight - then I will donate £10 million to have a new school built on the St Josephs site as I do believe it is the best site. But, just in case I dont win - here are my thoughts.
ReplyDeleteThe Council are not going to build a new school on the current St Josephs site.
If we do not accept moving to the Logie site - what are the alternatives?
Do you really think that the Council would build a school on a site that is at risk from poisoning children from a contaminated site or from a substation? You may not think much of Council officials or Councillors but they are not this stupid.
There may or may not be sex offenders living nearby but again this would be remedied before any new school was opened.
Yes there may be drug addicts living nearby - this is Dundee - there are drug addicts everywhere - maybe even in you street!!
Yes the site is smaller than we would perhaps like but there is not a site in the catchment area, like that of the new St Andrews School,with loads of open space.
Yes the children are coming home with playground 'gossip', not information, as to what the new school will have - a swimming pool, ensuite toilets, a playpark - it is an inner city school not a 4 star hotel.
Yes the school role may have to go down but the Council are not obliged to school children from outwith the catchment area or city boundaries.
Yes there maybe problems with some new schools which have been built in Scotland recently but with every new build whether it be a school, a hospital, a supermarket or a house there are always those who are not happy with the design or the colour of the paintwork etc. When you are dealing with 300+ families - how can you possibly please everyone?
So fingers crossed for tonight then...
Lucky Lucy xx
Hi Lucky Lucy - Great Comments, I think there are a lot of parents out there who would agree with you - Only one problem - It is my night to win the lottery and I am keeping it all!
ReplyDeleteFortunate Fred
Thanks to everyone for contributing to discussion today. To help follow the threads, please could you choose the 'Name/URL' option instead of 'Anonymous' and pick a name to use (URL is not necessary). It doesn't matter whether you are 'Mickey Mouse' or 'Donald Duck' as long as you're consistent.
ReplyDeleteThank you.
Lucky Lucy,
ReplyDeleteCan you explain why the council won't build on the St.Josephs site to me please?
It not about the site being smaller than we would like, it's ALOT SMALLER than it needs to be,not in my opinion but by law. A LAW that was revised more than 30years ago?
We only get one chance to build these new schools,so making the Council adhere to these laws is something to be ashamed of is it?
Standing up for our kids so that they can have the best facilities that money can buy, like the kids at St.Andrews is wrong is it?
As for the alternative, that's up to the Council.
However if you remember, they didn't seriously look at alternatives, coz they didn't do their jobs properly during option apprisal.
They want to sell the Joeys, end of. Squeezing 3 schools into the Logie site ticks all there boxes (and yours)but it sure don't tick mine.
Don't you think we deserve better?
The law says that we do?
Do you normally support unlawful activity?
I'd be delighted to know why you are so in favour. Not one person has yet to give me any information about the new schools that is factual or consistent.
What I do know is, that to build these schools the council will have to obtain special Ministerial consent. Why?
Because the sites not suitable for 3 schools.
It might also interest you to know our beloved council REFUSED a planning application for a nursery recently, because it did not have the required out door space as laid down in the regs.
Hey Lucky Lucy, you have had more than an hour to reply and the buzzer is close to sounding.
ReplyDeleteCome back at me with some facts please and I'll be happy to "trade blows" with you.
It is the best site, I agree with you, why do you favour moving so much then?
It's not a 4 star hotel. CORRECT
It's not ment to be a chicken coup either is it?
You say the council wouldn't build on a contaminated site,or one that poses a risk from the sub-station.
How do you know it's contaminated? Coz WE TOLD YOU, NOT THEM!!!!! They told you NADA,NOWT, ZILTCH.
Does the sub-station pose a risk? Clincal resaearch says yes. Council says......"my kids don't glow in the dark"
What remedy are you aware of that the Council will provide to deal with any sex offenders in the area before they build the schools? Please share Jucy, I'm on the edge of my seat
Again we raised this as a concern,with information to back it up.The council never had a scooby about it until we brought it up.
So please outline why building 3 schools at the Logie site is such a great thing for my kids, and possibly (God willing) their kids too?
The design won't suit everyone, again I agree, but it's not about the shape of the roof, or the colour of the walls.
This is about the proposal as it stands.
2wee43
Wow, Instant Karma, you ought to chill - maybe Lucy doesnt have all day/night to sit at her computer.Wasnt aware there was a deadline for replying.
ReplyDeleteShe is as entitled to her opinion as you are and is under no obligation to reply. She just said 'here are my thoughts'and you have made yours very clear. Calm down.
Just Chillin'
Dear Westend Parents - With someone like 'Instant Karma' in your group wanting to 'trade blows' with people it is no wonder some parents have been put off taking your group seriously. Is he going to trade blows with people on Sunday if they dont agree with him? I'd better bring my boxing gloves.
ReplyDeleteDS
You know what I ment, so stop trying to make it into something it is not.
ReplyDeleteI'm not looking for a fight, just want a healthy debate.
Your right about her being allowed an opinion, but I base mine on facts, not on a notion "that these new schools ARE going to be great" as most of the "for's" appear to me to be doing.
As I said Anon, come back with some facts. Don't tell me to CHILL, or calm down. Is that all you have to bring to the debate?
DS, same applies to you my freind, and I'll be delighted to hear your veiws on Sunday.
Chillin as you call it, will deliver these 3 schools on a plate, and I ain't having that without a fight.
Who said I was in a group?
Who said I was male
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
ReplyDelete'Instant Karma' - The reason everyone knows you belong to the group is because you said in your rant above ''How do you know it's contaminated? Coz WE TOLD YOU, NOT THEM!!!!!''. Facts ,as you say, are what matter. See you Sunday.
ReplyDeleteDS
DS, It's a fair cop, but rant?
ReplyDeleteNot sure I agree, just responding to a post that I felt, had no facts to support their case.
I have to ask tho, is trying to expose people with veiled refrences to their home address what this is about?
Stick to the subject, please.
Facts are what matter, you are 100% spot on.
Do you happen to be in possesion of any that may help me understand the "4's" on this issue.
Or do you have any on ground contamination, and the potential risk it poses?
See you Sunday.
No need to introduce yourself tho, you'll be the one carrying boxing gloves so I'll know who you are.
You wouldn't hit a lady would ya?
2Wee43
The comment by Anonymous 8:14pm has been removed and edited to remove personal information. The edited comment is:
ReplyDelete"No, you sound like a grumpy woman who will make a plcing request for your child soon and have it rejected as you live... [deleted]!"
To Instant Karma, Anonymous and others: please do not post personal, location or date/time information on this public website. It would stifle this healthy debate if the posts have to be moderated before being allowed onto the website.
ReplyDeleteGoing by the figures given by the Council, the new schools will be big enough for ALL children within the catchment area. The reason that both St. Josephs and Park Place have the number of children they do is because almost half of the children are placing requests. These facts cannot be disputed. I myself have children in one of these schools as a result of a placing request. I made this request because the school had such a good reputation and because of what I saw and heard when I went to visit the school. I was not concerned by the location or the outdoor space. After several years I remain very happy with the school and this will not change because the location might. Yes, it will be disappointing if some placing requests have to be refused, but this has not been confirmed as far as I am aware. I would presume (but I may be wrong) that because 50% of parents chose one of these schools, over their local school, that they like myself are not primely concerned with the location but I can understand their concerns over possible lack of space. Lets hear some more positive comments!!
ReplyDeleteThe council could close one of these schools and still have enough places for those in catchment. But as the previous poster said, there are reasons why there are so many placement requests for these schools. That shows they are something to be proud of and to be treasured. If they can be enhanced with some new development of the estate then great, but let's be careful we can preserve what it is that's so attractive about these schools in the process. Currently the schools provide good environments for learning. New builds if done right can no doubt be as good or even better. But if done wrong, on the wrong site, with the wrong amount of space, they could make the educational environment worse. Better to pause and make sure it's done right than rush into it with our eyes half shut.
ReplyDeleteDS, I can't say I saw you sat the meeting today.
ReplyDeleteDoes DS stand for Disnae Showup?
Facts are what matter remember? Fact is, you bottled showing up when you had a chance to say why you are so in favour of the proposal.
You chose not to, which is your right, but I'd have thought more of you if you had, seeing as you had already said you were coming.
Where is the urgent new information for those of us who were at Easter Road watching Rangers?
ReplyDeleteHow about you contribute to the cost and effort it has taken to obtain the information, say the price of the match ticket? - that's cheap at the price.
ReplyDeleteClutching at straws now. Corporate guest so I don't know price of a ticket.
ReplyDeleteYou are wasting your money -it's going ahead!
Anonymous 9:01pm said, "Where is the urgent new information...?"
ReplyDeleteThe information was presented to the people that attended the meeting and in handouts that were available. We hope to publish this to the website in the near future. If you would like a copy of the handout in the meantime, please email us at westendparents@googlemail.com
(posted on the romano blog also)
ReplyDeleteI really, really hope that people reading this blog who are in favour of the move write to their councillors as well as this group of extremists.
Not everyone has internet access so how on earth would people who were in favour of the meeting know about it unless they came back on this blog - after it said no more comments please? Clearly what has happened is the moaners have got together and said let's have a meeting to rally support and have told all their mates to come along to and bump their gums on the subject. I knew nothing of this metting and would most certainly have been there to voice my support. How many turned up? 50 people!!? Assuming there were on average 2 per family that's a whole 25 families that are against this proposal.... you're clutching at straws and after it had died down and people were getting back to normal you've stoked the flames again. Let the people who know what they're doing do their jobs. Stop butting in! Please!! Stop saying stupid things like the site's too small (it's not), there's scarey people around (some post on this blog1) and the most ridiculous point that the school is further away from the church - it will be 500 metres away for crying out loud - do you want them to be able to see the church from their desks!!? Maybe some of you should start taking your kids to church in your own time and let the school concentrate on educating them - take some parental responsibility. Or is this to do with the racists element within your group that spoke up at the first meeting - "I don't care if you think I'm a racist, but....". Imagine not wanting their kids to mingle with other cultures!!? It's downright racism whatever way you look at it. Think about the big picture - not about your religious bigotries and insecurities. Jobs, investment, prestige, learning environment...
I urge the parents that support the move - and this is most certainly the majority - please drop your councillor a wee line. His details are: -
Fraser MacPherson - fraser@frasermacpherson.org.uk
Phone : Home Number - 01382 459378
A simple (quick) email will be all it takes to say how much in favour you are of the move. I'm sorry but unlike this lot, I don't have a template you can use (by the way, nice unbiased letter you have on the site). A simple 'I'm in favour' I'm sure will suffice.
Good luck and don't let this lot spoil it for our kids and for the West End of Dundee... let's prove that not everyone is a militant and knows better that the decision makers in Dundee. Let's not have a mini Ford happening again...
'Fed up' - well said. Just what I was thinking. With the adverts and publicity in the paper over the weekend I would think 50 people is a poor show especially as that also included parishioners, press, councillors. So really you have the support of maybe 25 families out of at least 350 families if you include Park Place - not really a majority.Maybe the school, church and parent council are going about their business through the correct procedure and not ramming their views down peoples throats.
ReplyDeleteFed Up for President!!!
fed up..... Did you spend too long in the sun yesterday?
ReplyDeleteNot one thing credible in your post, toddle off.
You both 3.25 and 1.31. seem concerned. Is it the families you dont like or is it the way they present their views. I thought they were a nice bunch of people when I met them on Sunday. I think you should meet with them and then you might understand them. I dont think they are the sort of people that 'ram' views down other throats. However that was my first time meeting them so I am going on that. You two should phone them up and talk. Why not. You seem so passionate too so meet and talk. Maybe you can change their minds.Come out into the open. Be brave.
ReplyDeleteWell done, Fed Up.
ReplyDeleteRead tonight's Telegraph and one argument for the anits is lost. The Church has clearly said they have no problems with the ethos, that it will not change. The Church has met these parents and asked them to make their views known. Fair enough. The Church has assured parents and parishioners that they have no worries about ethos etc...At least they trust the teachers!
Funny that Bishop Devine is against shared campus schools then is it not?
ReplyDeleteOr is he not part of the church?
Does he not represent the area in Scotland with most Roman Catholics?
At least he has experience of these in his diocese.
PP and the Joeys will be Bishop Vincents first in Dundee, and I don't think any are operational yet elsewhere.
Maybe through his experience of co-located schools Bishop Devine has reached this conclusion.
Or is he a bigot, rascist or an extremist for making known his opinion on too?
"Or is he a bigot, rascist or an extremist for making known his opinion on too?"
ReplyDeletewouldn't like to comment on this one but I have a view. But this is OLD news. It was almost 5 years ago that he first came out with his objections. I thought this Blog was meant to refrain from commenting on individuals anyway? That said, let's just get back to the situation at hand. What is happening here is a small group of people are trying to railroad folks into thinking that a new school will somehow be a disaster for our children and better still, our children's children... personally I want what's best for my children - full stop. When they have children of their own then it's up to them to ensure they get the best deal for them. Let's not get on our high horses about doing what's right for future generations here... it's nonsense. It's a smoke screen because you can't just come out and say it - you don't want your children mingling with other faiths - and that is very sad and like it or not it is racist. All those at the first meeting heard the comments about "I don't care if you think I'm a racist..." and when was that raised? When the debate started to get heated and the guard dropped a bit. All this tosh of the ethos being eroded and people looking in on their kids. What do you think they're planning to build beside the school on Bellfield Street? I would hazard a guess it's going to be townhouses... does that change your mind about the move? It should because that was one of your arguments.... if it doesn't that is very interesting. So, let me see, the size of land is the same (if not bigger, because we're not going to pretend that the kids can wander out to the pitch and use it whenever they want), the current school will almost certainly have flats adjacent to it in the near future so similar to Logie. So what's left to argue about? Ah I know, the distance from the church - 500 metres. Bad one that. So that out the way, by my calculations it looks like it's the shared site that's left. Why don't you just come out and say it - we don't want our kids to mingle with kids from Park Place!! That's what it comes down to. And I'll tell you something - you'd get a lot more credibility if you just admitted this was the sticking point. You may lose a lot of support however as I'm sure this is not a view shared by the majority of open minded citizens. So stop going on about things that are not issues - let the council and planning department get on with their work and don't destroy a fantastic opportunity for Dundee to add another state of the art school to the city and allow your children to be educated in the best possible surroundings.
The "you don't want your children mingling with other faiths - and that is very sad and like it or not it is racist." comment is totally innappropriate.
ReplyDeleteSurely you must be aware that although St Joseph's is a RC school it has a multi-faith population (approx. 50:50). So where you get the idea any parent at St Joseph's has a problem with children playing with other children of different faiths is just plain ludicrous.
Dear 'fed up'
ReplyDeleteI think I know why you are fed up. It's because you are depressed. And the reason you're depressed is because you've not come to terms with reality. So PLEASE listen to the facts, open your mind and you can even change your name to 'EXCITED'. Whoopee.
Simon - unfortunately it's not inappropriate. The reason this is not being brought up is because you and others quite rightly would feel offended if this was used as one of the reasons to oppose or question the move. Rest assured however that this has been brought up and was been brought up publicly at the first meeting. Unfortunately some individuals feel strongly about this which I agree is utterly ludicrous.
ReplyDelete(Status Quo - what a silly post. Some people here are trying to debate issues. Best leave your childish name calling in the playground. It's not big and is certainly not clever).
Having just read the blog for the first time,I am shocked at the tone of fed up, my view is simple clear and staight forward........ how can a school with so many pupils on one site be beneficial? surley this cannot be the best option for our children, would this not be an intimidating environment for any child? how can they thrive in such a large school? the demoralising point is this has obviously been on the cards for a long time,did they not take a teacher away 4 years ago, therefore forcing a drop in enrolment? was the bellfield saga really down to a costly refurbishment or could it be the start of the campaign, having received a fabulous offer for the land? as far as the "fantastic oppertunity for dundee to add another state of the art school to the city and allow your children to be educated in the best possible surroundings" comment goes, are you aware that the children of craigowl, "state of the art school" are crammed into every nook and cranny? 14 class rooms 19 classes, one class being taught on the stage, one in the staff room , scuse me if im not convinced by the council and planning departments capabilities. without sounding too cynical look at the mess theyve made of our city.
ReplyDeleteI am not too happy about trusting the education department's judgement after experiencing Park Place nursery school. So many children are squashed into such a little space that it is no surprise that our children's nursey education is suffering. We were told that this move would benefit the children (why else would they do it?) but it clearly hasn't.
ReplyDeleteNow that decision is ancient history but in my opinion it shows that the education department's judgment is flawed. This new school is more about massaging the egos of the councillors than bettering the education of our children.
Status quo indeed.
Fed up,
ReplyDeleteYou wouldn't want to comment on wether Bishop Devine is a bigot etc for expressing his opinion,but YOU have a view?
I'll bet the river looks glorious from your padded cell in Carseview tonight does it?
I don't want my kids educated with other faiths. I want them educated with Catholics by Catholics.
ReplyDeleteI can't have that, so MY kids are at a Catholic school with 50% Catholic and 50% NON Catholics.
Am I a rascist for wanting this? I don't think I am. We worship in diffrent church's don't we?
Are you advocating we close our parishes down, and join in with another faith?
Dear Instant Karma,
ReplyDeleteI mustlook up the dictionary for 'racist'. I think it means hatred for another race. I think you are trying to preserve your beleifs and so you should and many have fought and died for them. But you really must be open to the growth that can be derieved from other faiths. I dont think you hate anybody but perhaps you fear been taken over and the catholic faith being eroded. Is this correct? Why is your church not reassuring you about things- so you can rest assueed. It breaks my heart that a religious group could feel so isolated and disheartened.
Dont worry. All will be fine.
Comment on Instant Karma 7.27.... everyone knows you are male and knows you are in the group... and I'm sure a few of them heard that you were most definitely not a racist. You made that clear in the initial meeting.
ReplyDeleteOoops - cover blown?