Director of Education: “There is no information to suggest that a three-storey primary school is not ideal, and it is certainly not unusual - there are several examples in Dundee, including Forthill, Hillside and Sidlaw View.”The schools you refer to are all quite old (1940’s-1960’s) and not indicative of best practice for the 21st century. Many new primary schools in Scotland are single storey and nearly all are no more than two storeys.
In Dundee, it has been stated that Craigowl is three-storey. Since it is built on a slope, it is two storeys at the front. As a result, occupants are never more than one storey away from the ground.
Why is this an issue for crying out loud? Are stairs evil?
ReplyDeleteWho says it is an issue? Reading this, it is just simply asking the council why if all new builds are no more than a 2-story build, what this particular one is 3. I am interested in knowing if there is any reason behind why the new builds have been limited to 2-storey. Looking at the bright side, if there will be no playing fields, then at least the children will have the stairs to excercise on!
ReplyDeleteSo the Council has said my kids get no playing fields, are in a 3 plus potentially building, are squashed into a small site apparently and I'm supposed to accept this am I. Why should I and why should my kids. I want playing fields for them to run around in. My pals kids who go to St andrews have playing fields. I dont know anyone in the other new builds but do they have these playing fields. If they do they I want the same. I dont want anything less than what anyother child is getting in the city. We all want whats best for our kids then why should I not have the same standard of space as St. Andrews. Why not. And dont tell me to move school because that is a cheap lowly arguement. I Should not have to move school to get the same standard of building or space. Are stairs evil? What sort of nonsense do some people speak. Stairs can have accidents particularly with young kids using them in mass. What about if a fire happens. But I'm not supposed to even think that. Surely that would never happen. Everything is fireproof these days. Can you imagine the panic of 5, 6, 7 yr olds. Order. Knowing little ones the way I do - its too much of a risk to depend on this order. Do any of the people have some samples of practice where fire on a three storey plus building with young children in not an issue? Show me. Then I will not consider fire a problem. My childrens safety comes before their education. I am a mum.
ReplyDeleteSorry but correct me if I'm wrong:
ReplyDelete+ the current St Joseph's has stairs.
+ the current St Joseph's has no playing fields.
I'm trying to follow your concerns here. If you are worried about stairs and the safety of your children on those stairs, then why would you not have your children in a school with no stairs? Also, if playing fields are a real issue here, then perhaps an inner city school is not for you either.
I think the playing fields issue is maybe being blown out of proportion. Looking at the size of the land against the 'estimated' size of the buildings, there will be more outside space than currently exists (especially if they build 3 levels!). This is something that you wouldn't get in the current site, so I'm not sure if it's such a big deal. I'm happy knowing that my daughter will have more room to play in outside, be safer in the school and will be getting educated using the best technologies and equipment there is available today.
PS 'Just a question' - liked your comment on the stairs. Made me smile. Good lateral thinking :) !
I'd like to know how this proposal compares to the other new schools recently built in Dundee, with respect to number of storeys, site size, number of pupils, outdoor playing area, building design and traffic solutions. Surely DCC must have all this information already and it can be requested under the Freedom of Information act.
ReplyDeleteHow can this be a good deal for the Westend if it's not the best school possible in ALL respects.
There has also been a lot of talk about out of catchment pupils attending both Park Place and St. Joseph's. Is it also possible that one objective may be to ultimately close Blackness School and restrict the new school to those in catchment? Is anyone aware of the out of catchment pupil ratio in Blackness?
to 'a mum' May 6, 2009 9:11 AM
ReplyDeleteplease do not succumb to the scare tactics employed by 'Concerned Parents'
1 - the proposed site is larger than St. Joseph's and Park Place combined
2 - we all would like playing fields. Both schools have no playing fields at the moment. The proposed site would be much closer to Balgay Park, perhaps opportunities would lie in that area.
3 - there is nothing wrong, in principle, with 3 storey buildings. All public buildings have to pass strict fire safety regulations. However there is not even a design for the new school. Making claims like "Three storeys (or more)?" is as misleading and inflammatory as claiming the new build will resemble a windowless battery farm surrounded by a ring of used syringes.
This is an opportunity for all parents to get involved in making sure their children benefit from a state-of-the-art modern school. Please do not give that up in face of a small minority who define a school as a building connected connected to a church.
To all those who are so keen on getting the "WORST NEW SCHOOL IN DUNDEE" then why not lower your sights even further and petition to cram in Blackness Primary into the site as well, then you could get nearer to a 800 kids AND build even more stories high AND have even less playing space.
ReplyDeleteBut it would still be wonderful though wouldn't it - because it's NEW and that is all that counts.
Wake up you lot - the current Logie deal on the table is a SHOCKER and the way it's being pressganged through is a disgrace on all those who are either elected to or paid to represent public opinion.
To Park Place Parent - Have you even read any of the documentation that was researched by the group who you are accusing of scare tactics? I hope you have because in the letter that was sent out to the PP parents - whoever wrote it stated that the story on contamination was not true - Jim Collins has now ackowledged that there is contamination. The Letter also mentioned that the site is not too small - WHat is the basis for saying this? - please do a comparison with all the other new schools and see what we are getting - I would not want to settle for minimum. Everyone wants a new school -this is a good opportunity to have one. Let us do it the right way and not accept something that is minimum just becasue it is there. Whoever wrote that PP letter was irresponsible as the views presented were not balanced - if I read it, not kowing anything else, of course I would sign it because only one view was apparent.
ReplyDeleteWhy would anyone settle for something you already have today if you can get something better? Better is having facilities that our children in the West End currently do not have. If the new school will still give us the same issues about space, parking, no playing fields, etc. should we not be asking for more? Whatever DCC offers should definitely make an impact on education because the Courier reported recently about how the government has doubled the spend for primary and secondary students but educational attainment has not really increased.
New facilities seem to be the end all and be all these days - look at the other school that was mentioned in the Courier that have none of these and still scored excellent in the HMI report.
Park Place Mum - you should ask yourself about who you should be accusing with scare tactics. Dundee City Council has used these several times during this consultation - why have you not said anything about them? How many times have they said that if this proposal does not go ahead that the money will be used somewhere else? Or that the teachers will all be very very demotivated (where do the children come into this equation?) or will we be happy to settle for what we currently have today. THe truth of the matter is that if parents want more that what is being offered in the proposal, then we should demand this for our children. IF the proposal is rejected, what will happen legally is that DCC will have to take all input into considertaion and go back to the drawing board. They will have to re-appraise the options again and still have to come out with another proposal for the West End School estate is this is much needed in this part of the city. Perhaps the scare tactis have worked - not from the parents but from Dundee City Council.
ReplyDelete