New school design obtained from Freedom of Information

On 26 January 2010, the West End Parents Committee received material from Scottish Government as a response to a Freedom of Information request. This material included early stage designs for the Logie site (June 2009) as well as detailed designs submitted by Dundee City Council to Scottish Government as a follow up to their application for dispensation in August 2009.

We confirmed with Scottish Government on 10 February 2010 that this material is now deemed to be in the public domain, and specifically that we are permitted to print/publish the site designs, which we have done below.

Note that the city council have shared the same design with the new Project Board, which convened on 27 January 2010.

Please consider these designs and make an effort to attend the West End Local Community Planning Partnership meeting on 18 February 2010, 7pm, at the Tartan Cafe

(53 Perth Road, Dundee) where the project director will give a presentation of the schools project.

West End Schools Project presentation 18 February at 7pm, Tartan Cafe

The West End Schools Project is now in the pre-planning application stage (under the new planning regulations) and the local community has an opportunity to comment on this initial stage of planning. Brief details of the application (10/00048/PAN) are available from the city council's website at:

http://bwarrant.dundeecity.gov.uk/publicaccess/tdc/DcApplication/application_detailview.aspx?caseno=KX64KMGC03500

Note that the detailed site plans, which show the allocation of space for the building, playgrounds, green space, access road, car parking and areas of unused land, along with internal classroom layouts, are not included on this website. Hopefully the city council will share these soon.

As a statutory consultee, the West End Community Council was served with the Proposal of Application Notice and has a period of 21 days (which started on 1 February 2010) to comment.

Also, the next meeting of the West End Local Community Planning Partnership will include a presentation on the West End Schools Project from the Project Director, Ms Gillian Ross Pond.

18 February 2010 at 7pm

in the Tartan Cafe, 53 Perth Road, DD1 4HY (Google Map)

This is an opportunity for all members of the public to ask about the council's plans for these new schools and the use of Victoria Park for the provision of school playing fields.

Please come along if you can.

More confusion over DCC plans for Victoria Park

This week's press has highlighted a number of worrying concerns raised by local councillors, as well as further confusing statements from the city council. To set the scene, the School Premises (General Standards and Requirements) (Scotland) Regulations 1967, and amended, state:

8(1) Every primary school shall have available and in close proximity to it playing fields not less than the area specified in Table IV according to the number of pupils for which the school is designed except where the provisions of regulation 8(4) apply.

Depending on the extent to which playing fields are shared between the two schools, Table IV indicates that the West End Schools proposal requires between 4000-6000 square metres (1-1.5 acres) dedicated for playing fields.

We have learned from Freedom of Information requests that the Director of Education wrote to Schools Division of Scottish Government in April and May 2009 as follows:

"With regard to the matter of playing fields, we are committed to providing facilities at this site for outdoor education."

"It will not have a playing field, although there will be one in close proximity."

Also, the Convener of Education stated on STV in May 2009:

"..there is no absolute need for them, for us to provide them with a playing field as part of the facilities of the school"

The Scottish Government decision notice, available from their website, grants dispensation to DCC for the size of site being less than that required by regulation 7, and states:

5.6 The provision of a hall, gymnasium and outdoor play area, along with the proposal for both schools to be able to use the nearby Victoria Park for outdoor activities and games, offer good potential for each school to ensure that all children receive the appropriate allocation of time for good quality physical education. As yet the council has not formally dedicated any space in the park for use by the schools, nor indicated what, if any, games pitches might be laid out for their sole or shared use. The draft plans for the proposed shared campus include the possibility of a small shared all-weather area which could be used for games and other outdoor activities. It is not clear at the moment whether or not this pitch will actually be built if the proposal goes ahead.

6.2 HMIE recommends that the council be asked to clarify its proposals for use of Victoria Park by giving a commitment to how it would dedicate part of the park for use of the two primary schools and a firmer indication of what pitches or sports areas might be laid out for their use at various times of the year.

Note the need for "appropriate allocation of time for good quality physical education" rather than occasional use of a public park, which any school at any time is fully entitled to do, in addition to its playing fields. Also, the city council is asked to give "a commitment to how it would dedicate part of the park" (emphasis added).

Now, read on and let us know if you can make sense of the council's plans ...

1. Plans for £10m shared campus get green light (The Courier, 11 Dec 2009)

The council said it will be "addressing" the Victoria Park issue - a draft proposal includes the possibility of a small, shared all-weather but no space has been dedicated in the park for schools use.

2. £10m schools plan to be discussed (Evening Telegraph, 11 Dec 2009)

The joint campus is expected to be three storeys high and include playing fields at Victoria Park for use by both schools.

3. Row over plans to use Victoria Park (The Courier, 12 Dec 2009)

... elected members, parents and teachers were not consulted about plans to use Victoria Park as playing fields for schools use. It was also claimed last night that PE sessions in the park could "change the nature" of a popular west end green space.

... Ministers were told that Victoria Park could be used for playing fields, perhaps with an all-weather surface installed, but Councillor Bidwell said a "detailed proposal" was not previously shared.

... a claim which Councillor Fordyce denied last night. "I can't say off the top of my head when it was first raised," she said. "It wasn't just tagged on at the end - it was raised."

4. City official not consulted on plan for Victoria Park (The Courier, 14 Dec 2009)

Director of leisure and communities Stewart Murdoch was not aware that education bosses had told ministers the park could be used for playing fields, perhaps with an all-weather surface installed.

... The plan, in particular the Victoria Park proposal, has caused much controversy locally and last night Mr McCready said it must be examined "in great detail" before being rubber-stamped.

... "Victoria Park is popular with local people in the west end and is well used," Mr McCready added. "Using it exclusively for educational purposes may impact on local people's use of the park and I want to be sure that their views are taken on board as well as the views of the education stakeholders."

5. School's park plan will not mean fence (The Courier, 15 Dec 2009)

Dundee City Council has stepped in to try to reassure west end residents that parts of Victoria Park are not to be fenced off for the exclusive use of pupils. The park has become central to the row over future primary school provision in the area.

... Attempting to answer the criticism, the council pointed to other schools in the city that use public parks and said there would also be outside space available on the shared campus itself.

"There will be playground areas, including a grassed area, located within the proposed shared campus," a council spokesman said.

"There is also the possibility of including an all-weather area in the draft plans for the former Harris Academy annexe site.

... the spokesman added, "The use of Victoria Park for sporting activity will form part of our plans but it is not our intention to erect any fencing around a dedicated area or to construct an all-weather surface at the park."

6. Worries over Victoria Park (Evening Telegraph, 15 Dec 2009)

Doubts have been expressed about the use of Victoria Park for playing fields, and west end councillor Fraser Macpherson revealed today many west end residents had contacted him with concerns.

One Blackness Road resident had written, "I find it unbelievable that a decision such as this appears to have been made with no public consultation. The park has been in use as open public space for over 100 years and a change of use of even part of it would be seriously detrimental to its use and to the west end as a whole. I would like to know why this is the only option being looked at, and what other options are available."

7. Concern at St Joseph's proposal (Letters, Evening Telegraph, 15 Dec 2009)

I feel the new school, with its wifi, and hopefully no leaks, is a double blow to the many St Joseph’s pupils who live in the west end tenements, as not only will they be robbed of the vital opportunity to explore the outdoors while at school, those whose parents take them to play at Victoria Park will have their space to play constrained as sections will be cordoned off for the new school’s facilities.

8. Council pressed on park proposal (The Courier, 16 Dec 2009)

The city council has pointed out that other city schools use public parks, and also said there would be outside space on the shared campus itself.

... (Councillor) McCready pointed out that the school inspectors' report issued last week talked about there being a "dedicated" part of the park for the schools to use.

9. Victoria Park talk "most unhelpful" (Evening Telegraph, 16 Dec 2009)

West End SNP Councillor Jim Barrie spoke out over "rumours" associated with the proposal after talks with the director and convener of education.

... Councillor Barrie said, "It is important the public are aware and assured there will be no area 'cordoned off' for dedicated school use and full access for members of the public will continue."

... Mr Barrie said, "... I remember as a five-year-old pupil the excitement of the rare visits to Victoria Park for summer sports day, and being introduced to the many varieties of trees in Balgay Park. That is what Balgay Park is there for, and the occasional use of its facilities should be encouraged. I am sure the regular users of the park would love to see more children playing, not only in Victoria Park, but exploring the trails up Balgay Hill and visiting the Observatory."

10. Don't despoil Victoria Park (Letters, The Courier, 18 Dec 2009)

The Friends of Balgay heard a brief hint of this plan a few weeks ago and immediately protested.

Victoria Park is very well used by families and young people who gather together there, picnic when the weather is fine and enjoy the friendly atmosphere.

If football is played there, the ground will be churned up and lying on the grass will no longer be comfortable or even possible.

... To get to Victoria Park from the planned school site, children would have to walk quite a distance up Blackness Road, negotiate what is quite a dangerous crossroads and make their way round the flower beds. It would seem that a simpler solution would be to bus the children to Lochee Park and allow them to use the facilities available there.

11. Pledge to consult Victoria Park users (Evening Telegraph, 18 Dec 2009)

In an email to Cllr MacPherson, Mr Collins pointed out that new regulations now give easier opportunity for anyone who wishes to make comment on a planning issue and emphasised no major takeover of any of the park space is envisaged.

He added there are “no proposals to erect fences and the statement I have read in the Press about a possible all-weather facility is quite simply wrong — no such facility is proposed.

12. Victoria Park concerns - feedback from the Director of Education (Councillor Fraser Macpherson's blog, www.dundeewestend.com, 18 Dec 2009)

... the City Council's Director of Education has responded to me about the department's proposals for use of Victoria Park by the schools on the proposed shared campus on the former Logie Secondary School site as follows :

"I want to emphasise that no major take over of any of the park space is envisaged. Primary schools in Dundee who do not have dedicated playing fields occasionally make use of park space for events such as sports days and football matches, but their use tends to be rare. I do not envisage the new West End campus requiring anything more frequent in Victoria Park."

If you can decipher the council's plans and align these with the Scottish Government and HMIe decision notice, please leave a comment and help us understand.

STV coverage of the decision on the council's application for dispensation

A spokesperson for the West End Parents Committee was interviewed by STV yesterday for a reaction to the Scottish Government's decision to approve Dundee City Council's application for dispensation. See here for the STV footage: http://news.stv.tv/video/dundee-tayside/stv-news-local-tayside-20091211/ (1m45s into the video).

Note that although the council submitted an application on 4 August 2009 for dispensation on size of site and provision of playing fields, they later amended the application on 15 September 2009 by promising to use Victoria Park for playing fields and retracted their application for dispensation under Regulation 8 of the School Premises (General Requirements and Standards) (Scotland) Regulations 1967 and as amended.

Scottish Government confirms Logie site is too small for regulations

We've received confirmation that the proposals for new schools in the West End will not meet minimum government regulations governing size of site. Scottish Ministers have approved the city council's application for dispensation from the School Premises (General Requirements and Standards) (Scotland) Regulations 1967 and as amended, on the basis that:

"Scottish Ministers are content to approve, in terms of regulation 7(6), the area of the west end site for the proposed two schools and nursery. They take the view that, in all the circumstances, it would be unreasonable to apply the standards prescribed in the regulation."

The city council has also been instructed to follow HMIe recommendations:

"...to clarify its proposals for use of Victoria Park by giving a commitment to how it would dedicate part of the park for use of the two primary schools and a firmer indication of what pitches or sports areas might be laid out for their use at various times of the year. The council should also seek to reassure parents about the levels of contamination of soil at the proposed site and the level of danger from the nearby electricity sub-station. HMIE also recommends that the council shares and discusses the detailed plans for the joint campus with parents."

We look forward to receiving the council's detailed plans and glad to see that the council has been made aware that the provision of playing fields is a requirement, not a guideline, nor as the Education Convener stated in May 2009,

"there is no absolute need for them...for us to provide them with a playing field"

Some confusion at DCC regarding use of Victoria Park

Following our previous blog entry regarding the response from the Director of Leisure and Communities to Cllr Richard McCready, stating they have "no such plans" to use Victoria Park for school playing fields, we have obtained information under FOISA that suggests some confusion between departments in the city council. We asked:

(3a). Is DCC intending to use any of the following spaces - Victoria Park, Lochee Park, Magdalen Green, - for the purpose of sport and recreational activities by the proposed new West End Primary Schools (the shared campus for Park Place and St Joseph's)?

The response given under FOISA was:

"DCC is intending that Victoria Park will be used as necessary by the proposed West End Campus"

Please can someone enlighten us regarding the city council's plans for Victoria Park with respect to the proposed new West End schools?

Update on DCC application to Scottish Government

Cllr Fraser Macpherson has posted an update on his website (www.dundeewestend.com) advising that the city council's application for dispensation should soon result in a decision from Scottish Ministers. The Director of Education is quoted to be looking forward, "with somewhat bated breath", to a decision being made soon.

Remember that the application was made on 4 August 2009, over 4 months ago, but the council has not kept parents or residents updated with developments. It has made no statement about the inclusion of Victoria Park in its application, although Schools Division in Edinburgh have confirmed that the application intends for this public park to provide playing fields for the new schools.

When a West End councillor recently asked the Director of Leisure and Communities about "a briefing on any plans to use Victoria Park in the West End Ward for school playing fields for the proposed West End school located at the former Logie site", his official and confirmed reply was:

"We have no such plans"

What is going on in Tayside House?